This is a welcome diversion from the run-of-the-mill accusations of Russia bad, Ukraine good.
The world is more complex than that.
There aren't many considered and alternative voices out there that we can find, but these two protagonists do make a good fist of commenting on the current situation and setting what passes for our current western leadership into an historical context.
Would that we could find such a discussion in the mainstream media.
"This will put an end to NATO"
Time for strategic thinking - what is our purpose, what is actually achievable, how could we best achieve that, what do we need to do?
Before Ukraine and perhaps others are totally destroyed, we need people who are prepared to address the facts on the ground and do what is necessary - politically and militarily.